Do you believe certain mental disorders could be caused by demons rather than "chemical embalances?"?
Theories suggest that mental disorders such as depression, psychosis, bipolar disorder, can manifest in a number of ways. However, that is just a theory.
To some, God, Lucifer, and demons are just a theory as well. Something that can not be proven yet also something that cant be disproved.
So would you say its quite possible that these dangerous illness’ could quite possibly be relevant to demonic possesion or demon taking control of a person?
As you can see im not looking for a yes / no answer. i would like for you to explain feelings for your beliefs.
Sisyphus, that is exactly my point.
D3monm0n, chemical embalances are not proven. they are suggestions. I am diagnosed with a metnal disorder and have undergone treatment for over a decade. One is not diagnosed by chemical embalance tests
Yet, through all this, not one of you is able to prove to me that Chemical Embalances or "nature" are the cause for a mental illness. You still have not proven to me that demons are not the cause for this. Yes, doctors study about these mental illness, but whats the difference between a doctor studying a book of characteristics for illness that cant be proven than a Pastor studying the bible that also can not be proven?
Of course! there is an example of this in the bible where the ppl of the town looked upon a certain man like he was crazy or a lunatic as they called him, and Jesus came walking by and saw the man doing mental type stuff and asked him who he was and he responded by saying a particular demon’s name and Jesus commanded the demon from the man, and threw it over a cliff.. from that point on the man was made whole…
August 31st, 2010 at 8:09 am
NO
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August 31st, 2010 at 8:24 am
No not at all.
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August 31st, 2010 at 9:11 am
Not really.
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August 31st, 2010 at 9:23 am
Having "demons" is NOT a scientific theory. It’s a guess.
Scientific theories ARE NOT guesses.
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August 31st, 2010 at 9:38 am
I’m not insane, so no.
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August 31st, 2010 at 10:11 am
belief in omnipotent invisible beings is caused by "embalance"
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August 31st, 2010 at 10:16 am
no. they’re just us being "demons" to ourselves by our habits.
EDIT
And this why we can’t prove it:
There is no cure for any mental diseases known.
We have no proof that they are the cause b/c we don’t know how.
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August 31st, 2010 at 10:25 am
Until the 16th century christians treated mentally ill people as being possessed either by god or by demons. Some people were exorcised whiel others who weren’t violent or harmful were sometimes left with monasteries because they were considered closer to god.
When science advanced (and religion had less influence on it), they started to view it more scientifically.
EDIT: What I was saying is that people were ignorant before but now we know much more. Until a few hundred years ago people didn’t even know the brain is where thoughts and emotions come from. You can view witch doctors and priests around the world, pray and do whatever you can to try help your disorder; they’re willing to accept your money and attention.
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August 31st, 2010 at 10:44 am
No, thats just a way for people to outcast certain people with mental problems and not feeling bad about doing it. It’s mean, cruel, and downright wrong.
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August 31st, 2010 at 11:20 am
Don’t be silly. Of course not.
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August 31st, 2010 at 11:55 am
There are no demons, are you dense?
Chemical Imbalances are proven.. because they can SAMPLE THE CHEMICALS, i never heard of a medical report of them pulling out some little red-horned screaming creature from some bi-polar guys head! Learn to anatomy!
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August 31st, 2010 at 12:11 pm
I’ve never seen a chemical embalance, but people have believed in demons for thousands of years! I bet demons that cause depression and anxiety are simply allergic to medications like Xanax and Cymbalta. Who knows what’s actually in those meds, anyway? I bet it’s nothing more than mandrake and eye of newt.
Giz
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August 31st, 2010 at 12:17 pm
No. All mental disorders have organic or nurtured causes. And some aren’t really disorders, you just think they are.
Daemons, Satan, God and Santa Claus are just fairy-tails, grow up already.
Edit: To give you hope, you need to learn how your mind works. If believing you are possessed and exercising those daemons seems to help, them more power to you.
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August 31st, 2010 at 12:33 pm
Sickness is caused by an imbalance of bodily humours, and all you need are some leeches to suck out the bad blood.
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My phrenologist told me so, and my astrologer agrees with him.
August 31st, 2010 at 12:49 pm
No such things as real demons, just those ones in xians heads
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August 31st, 2010 at 1:03 pm
Quit believing in fairy tales and start using your head for thinking.
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August 31st, 2010 at 1:53 pm
Sometimes, I think it is possible. Definitely. The Bible says that we are fighting not against flesh, but against the powers of darkness – evil. I believe non-believers can be possessed by demons.
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August 31st, 2010 at 2:32 pm
No, I don’t.
But then again, in my religion the spiritual world view is not set up in good-vs-evil terms, there are no boogie-men out to get us.
I rather think mental disorders are from nature, sometimes nurture, or sometimes a combination of both.
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August 31st, 2010 at 3:19 pm
Hell no. All those disorders are well-researched. They have no supernatural causes.
Saying they come from demons does nothing good, only harm. Look up what happened to the girl the movie Emily Rose is based on.
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August 31st, 2010 at 4:09 pm
these conditions have specific symptoms and signs and are diagnosed clinically with professionals. The experts have coined these names to these conditions. Further more treatments are also specific for these conditions and are different with different doses. It is a clinical practice and not just a "theory".
So no demons don’t play any role.
But the most dangerous mental condition is religious obsession.
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August 31st, 2010 at 4:58 pm
I’ll go with secular causes for mental imbalances, someone near and dear has had at least three exorcisms where he was told he could go off his meds, and each time he came back worse and had to double his dosages.
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August 31st, 2010 at 5:25 pm
Mental illness can be treated with medication and sometimes surgery. If it was really a demon, treatment shouldn’t work at all.
Weren’t these demons supposed to have lost the battle and been thrown into the "lake of fire" for punishment? How come they’re running around loose on Earth, possessing people?
God, Lucifer, and demons are NOT "just a theory". It’s a Bronze Age myth, created by people trying to make some sense of the world around them.
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August 31st, 2010 at 6:06 pm
quite possibly, yes…. just look in the bible, demon possessed kids had the similar traits as kids today who have mental illnesses…..im not saying that all kids with mental illnesses have demonds inside of them! no! you cant become demon possessed unless you literally allow a demon to controll you…which in todays culture,, happens…..but also,, we live in a sinful wonld where sickness is just part of it for now
anyways, we shouldnt treat anyone any different, God wants us to love everyone, and that means mentaly ill people too,, we should love them more even
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August 31st, 2010 at 6:24 pm
yep known people with disorders who see and experience demons.
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August 31st, 2010 at 6:57 pm
Yes I do think that could well be the problem. If you are a born again child of God, bought by the blood of Jesus then you have authority over any demons, otherwise you have no authority at all and I pity you. But, all you have to do is believe and ask Jesus to come into your heart and live His life through you.
Speak out loud to them, tell them they MUST go where Jesus sends them.
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August 31st, 2010 at 7:02 pm
Medical treatments are not a theory in the sense that you use it. God and Satan are not "theories" either, they are simply myths, an objective review of the evidence and lack of evidence for the Bible will easily show why this is true.
While we do not understand everything about the mind, it is clear that chemical imbalances can be medically treated, and so far no creditable demon possession has been documented.
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Sorry, there simply is not enough space to copy various research papers into this space. I’d suggest heading to your local university and doing quite a bit of research.
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I’d beg to differ on your statement that chemical/hormonal imbalances are guesses. Perhaps you have solid documentation of this apparently false statement?
Edit:
Diagnoses can be made without doing tests on the chemistry of the brain. Generally speaking, it is fairly invasive to test this, and thus carries a great risk. If other symptoms can be used as indications, they are. I’d suggest a different set of doctors if you are not getting the appropiate care.
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August 31st, 2010 at 7:34 pm
I’m sorry, but I’m going to have to give you a "No" as an answer.
No.
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August 31st, 2010 at 7:41 pm
yes being possessed by a demon can cause people to behave in a way that may make them appear ill or have a disorder
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August 31st, 2010 at 8:03 pm
Of course! there is an example of this in the bible where the ppl of the town looked upon a certain man like he was crazy or a lunatic as they called him, and Jesus came walking by and saw the man doing mental type stuff and asked him who he was and he responded by saying a particular demon’s name and Jesus commanded the demon from the man, and threw it over a cliff.. from that point on the man was made whole…
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August 31st, 2010 at 8:28 pm
You guys really get a kick out of saying, "that’s just a theory" don’t you?
Would you *please* go learn proper vocabulary, and understand that a "theory" is a scientific explanation of natural processes or systems that’s well-supported by evidence and provides at the very least a good working explanation for observed phenomena? In other words: theories have evidence to show they’re right.
That also means that god, lucifer, demons, etc. are not "a theory" — because there is no evidence of any kind to demonstrate that they exist. Their existence is not even an hypothesis (an explanation of natural phenomena that hasn’t yet been proven or unproven through evidence) — first because they’re not natural, and second because the evidence is overwhelming that they *do not* exist.
Geez, if you’re going to try to sound logical and scientific, at least learn to use the vocabulary properly. When you screw it up like that, it doesn’t make you look smart, it makes you look very ignorant.
And no, it’s not possible that any mental illness is a result of demonic possession, because a) there’s no evidence to support that idea b) there’s a ton of evidence to show it’s incorrect, and c) there’s a ton of evidence to show that no demons do now or ever have existed.
You know, we proved that mental illness wasn’t "demons" nearly 200 years ago. Have you been hiding under a rock?
Peace.
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August 31st, 2010 at 9:17 pm
i believe they are of satan. i think some though are also just how we are born. God heals us though. my mother in law is schitzofrentic or however you spell it. however she asked God to heal her and now is completly healed. they cant explain but we can. sorry for the spelling spell check would not spell correctly lol. also though take many peope who have some of these diseases to like an apostolic church that believes in healings in Jesus name and see how they react. if it was not satan they would be normal. amazing what the power of God and invoking Gods name can do. try to heal in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost with saying those titles. nothing happens. but when you say in Jesus name there is power in that name.
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August 31st, 2010 at 9:45 pm
I would say yes to some and no to others. Something’s are demonic and its just a strong hold. For example; I go to church with this young lady and she use to have seizures all the time when she got saved they stopped for a long time. Once she started to get really close with the lords the seizures would only come on her Sunday mornings when she getting ready for church. It happened one time in church when she was praising God. Ministers began to pray over her during the attack and it suddenly stopped. Some people don’t believe in the miracles God can do.
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August 31st, 2010 at 10:20 pm
No way.
Chemical imbalances may not be definitively proven, but MRIs and Cat scans have shown that people will mental illnesses have significant differences in the way their brains handle the various chemicals produced by the brain. For instance, many people who struggle with self-destructive behaviors (eating disorders — anorexia, overeating, bulimia, etc. — self-mutilation, addiction, and so on) don’t absorb dopamine in the same way that most people do, and often overcompensate for this by indulging in addictive and destructive behavior.
I currently take an SNRI, and I can attest to the fact that it has helped me — and I’m certainly not alone in that. This alone indicates that brain chemistry is very much a part of depression/anxiety/etc. More severe disorders, such as manic depression, schizophrenia, and so on all react to psychotropic drugs. Plus, I find it rather ironic that you insist that chemical imbalances aren’t proven, yet you have no problem asserting that demons are causing mental illness despite there being absolutely NO evidence that demons even exist, let alone cause mental illness. At least there is a fair amount of evidence suggesting that brain chemistry plays as part in disorders of the brain.
Edit: Guess what? We’re not responsible for proving that demons aren’t causing mental illness. One can only prove a positive, not a negative. While it is our responsibility to prove that brain chemistry can cause mental illness, it’s your responsibility to prove that demons are causing it.
So, buddy… prove to me that demons cause mental illness. Show me a single shred of evidence for your assertions. At least we have brain imaging studies, real-world events, and so on to add credence to our claims. So where is your evidence?
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August 31st, 2010 at 11:06 pm
Chemical disorder in the brain certainly results in mental disorders. Just like alcohol or drugs may make us mad. Evil angels may take advantage of such a chemical disorder in our brains and use it to their advantage. I think a healthy brain can better resist the influence of evil angels.
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August 31st, 2010 at 11:42 pm
You are confusing what some crackpot religious person calls a "theory" and what a scientist considers a theory.
The demon thing is not a theory.
There is evidence towards chemical imbalances, none for demons. "Mental disorders" is a very broad term. Even if it is proven, it isn’t going to be the same in every patient and treatment still may not work. Finding the imbalance and finding a way to test for it are two very different things.
ADD: You have absolutely no understanding of science.
Go get a PhD and find your own evidence. There is still a lot we don’t know,, and science rarely deals in proofs. Much of it is very complicated and since you don’t even understand what a theory is I really think even basic understanding of chemistry and anatomy are beyond your capacity at the moment.
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September 1st, 2010 at 12:28 am
That is funny that you asked this my wife works at a mental hospital and we were just talking about this same thing. She believes that it is quite possible that some are demonic. She has always been kind of sensitive to spiritual things and she can see the persons who being change at times. The problem is how to deal with it. What I have experienced is that fear will empower them. I have seen miracles and will definitely pray for you to receive one. God bless you.
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September 1st, 2010 at 12:57 am
no. i know too much biology and psychology to believe that there’s some demon causing those problems. all of those prolems are due to nurture and nature.
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September 1st, 2010 at 1:33 am
Give the psychologist his due, but his disbelief does not cause evil spirits to stop existing. I have no idea how frequent demonic possession is, but I imagine it’s extremely rare. I have only ever been in the presence of an evil spirit once in my whole life, if I’m any judge — unless I’m just too ignorant and evil and unaware to have detected any other times.
It’s most likely that a parasitic spirit wouldn’t draw attention to itself. If possible, it would seek to continue its infestation. The only outward symptoms of possession would ensue if the victim were righteous enough to resent and attempt to reject the possession (contention on the data bus, so to speak). The struggle for control appears to (a) happen frequently in the case of good people; and (b) have been entirely absent in the case of Judas Iscariot.
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September 1st, 2010 at 1:38 am
No
There was a Movie based on a true story of an Exorcism done on
someone that had epilepsy.
The Exorcism of Rose I think it was called.
There should be some kind of conclusive tests done
for chemical imbalances though or else they are just guessing
and you become a guinea pig for the right Pharmaceutical Cocktail.
Also mental disorders can be caused by Environmental causes,such as trauma and stress overload.
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September 1st, 2010 at 2:22 am
Well that is possible but I don’t really think that there caused from being possed by demons I think it all depends on how you handle things and what happens to you through out your life! However some mental illnesses do seem to come from being possed by demons!
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September 1st, 2010 at 2:44 am
So what you are saying is: If it is bad and you have no explanation for it – it must be a demon? Well, a thousand years ago I might go along with that, but seriously its rather doubtful. The supernatural is always a good explanation for an unknown.
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September 1st, 2010 at 3:19 am
Its an interesting idea. I would have to say not likely to be true however. The workings of our mind is so complex and I’m not sure that anyone has a true perception of reality. Two people could witness the same event but because of their interpritation of what happened may have very different descriptions of what happened. A pesemist would likely focus on whats bad, flawed, hurtful, while the optimist would focus on any good that may be present. Or take english vs french interpritaions of canadian wars. In MB. I look at Louis Reil as a founder of the province while someone in Ontario may see him as a traitor to Canada. I guess what I’m getting at before I go to far off topic is that the pesemist after becoming negative may only have those feelings compounded as they keep interpriting events to be sour. They eventualy loss their ability to see how tragaties can be looked a in a posative. NOt to say all tragaties have a good side but you know what I mean, well maybe.
Peace
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September 1st, 2010 at 3:29 am
You misunderstand the use of the word theory when it is used in a scientific context. It represents a testable hypothesis. It does not mean speculation or raw conjecture.
Depression, psychosis, and bipolar disorder are all carefully observed and well defined states, which have been successfully treated through scientifically derived methods. These are serious problems, and it would be reckless to attempt there treatment with untested methods.
I suggest clinical testing of Your method. A comparison of the effectiveness of exorcism and prayer should be cared out, to see their merits. Well, in point of fact, prayer has been shown to be useless, beyond the expected variation of the placebo effect. Once exorcism show effect results, then it would be an acceptable treatment. I eagerly await the results.
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September 1st, 2010 at 3:53 am
Aside from the fact that we need a better working definition of "demon." I think it’s all about which treatments work. To my knowledge exorcisms haven’t been terribly successful but a variety of other therapies have. These include talk therapy, art and music therapies, and drug therapies to name a few.
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September 1st, 2010 at 4:40 am
Sorry but science has proved that chemical imbalances and such exist.
The Christian bogeyman and his cronies? Not so much.
Better luck next time.
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September 1st, 2010 at 5:01 am
i hear that mental illness can run through families.in my situation,i think i was born with it.when your own father tries to make your mother miscarry you,[it doesnt matter if it was just a small punch in the stomach]a psychiatrist told me,that it can result in damage to the baby’s brain.its possible the brain chemistry got messed up as a result of that.but,mental illness has different levels.some can be severe,some can be quite mild.not everybody has chronic,lifelong bouts with mental illness.someone can be depressed,take anti-depressants for 4 months,and feel just fine after that.and so they wont need the medicine anymore.for some of us,mental illness is something we have to deal with all our lives.maybe if i wasnt almost killed by my own father,i wouldnt be sick today.but,unfortunately,that isnt the way it is.in regards to demon possession,i myself would link that to a serial killer,or a terrorist,or a rapist.but mental illness is different.we realize we have problems,and we’re being treated for them.a dangerous,sociopathic type of person,doesnt think they have problems,and doesnt feel remorse for anything they do.a person who is aware of their behavior,and tries to correct that,in regards to demon possession,i think they’re more oppressed than anything.they’re being tempted to do certain things.but because they’re aware that they have a problem,they fight the attack against them.and they refuse to give in to the attack.i think,also,with possession,sometimes,people arent even aware of what’s happening to them.they dont even realize what has a hold of them.
as for chemical imbalances,i hate that theory.doctors tell people that,then say the patient has to be put on medication for the rest of their life.i know.because i was told that.the doctor practically forced me to take pills.they didnt give me a choice.i do think,sometimes,that the chemical imbalance theory,is simply their way of getting a hold of you,so they can prescribe pills,and take all your money.i do believe i have mental illness.but,i really dont trust half the people who are supposed to help treat the illness.in my experience,for the most part,the doctors put you on pills,pills,and more pills.but,the pills only seem to make things worse.the doctors dont care.because they profit off the patients they say are so ‘’sick.”
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September 1st, 2010 at 5:34 am
Well, I would have to agree with your conjecture. Unlike previous posters who state that The Word is "theory" and therefore a "myth". Or another who stated that the science behind chemical imbalance THEORY was "proven" "truth". If you consistently do some research into the ways that mental disorders are "proven" you will find that there is nothing scienticfic about it! It is all conjecture, sometimes it a convenient guess or based upon even less truth than you think. For me, the Word is the TRUTH… Yes, with a capital "T"!
To start you should read a couple of very interesting books I have read on the subject of mental disorder and how it’s created and diagnosed:
"They Say You’re Crazy" by Paula J. Caplan, PhD
And another good one is called
"Toxic Psychiatry" by Dr Peter Breggin
Both of these books fully examine phsychiatry as a whole, the ideas and theories behind many diagnosis. Peter Breggin goes on to talk about how much harm is caused by many common psychiatric treatments used. For example, most of the drugs used to treat mental illness actually can cause irrepairable harm to brain tissue, rather than heal. Haldol, which is commonly prescribed to schizophrenics, in it’s chemical makeup, actually causes the tissues of the frontal portion of the brain to break down. It is a frontal labotomy in chemical form!
Also, Dr Breggin has written another great book called "Talking Back to Prozac" which he tells the TRUTH about how this drug was pushed onto the market because pharmecuetical companies knew that it would make them a fortune! It was tested in VERY limited and controlled trials, which is why, when it first was widely used, there were many issues with consumers. Very few people know that Prozac’s chemical makeup is the exact same as street speed! No wonder everyone using it is happy all the time!
Well, anyway, I was using prozac for three years. I could not get a good night’s sleep the last year and I was also prescribed Trazadone for the insomnia. I decided that I was not going to depend upon the drugs for the rest of my life. I also decided to place my mental health in the hands of ONE I knew heals and HE would take care of me! Many years before that, I had already determined in my heart to NEVER accept the diagnosis that I was labeled with!
I have been drug free for many three years and am happier than I’ve ever been. I stepped out in faith, left a lifetime of accumulation in my home state and moved across country with my four children. It was the best decision I have ever made!
In answer to your question, I do NOT accept as "fact" what psychiatry has decided are labels and "disorder" because my faith has taught me that HE did not make me or anyone else to be disordered! He did, however, give the evil of this world free reign here and it is quite likely that many people, who are arbitrarily labeled with a disorder are actually in real need of some LOVE and TRUTH at the hands of believers, rather than a pat prescription and a lifetime sentence of drug dependence. They also might be in need of serious prayer and the laying on of Spirit filled hands! This is what Dr Breggin speaks about in his book: treating those who are suffering with empathy and compassion rather than drugs and dibilatating treatments.
Someone here mentions that determining a demon possesion is "cruel"… Frankly, I find our current methods just as cruel and unfeeling. At least, with insight and the Spirit within us, we can determine that EVERYONE can be well in HIS NAME!
Good luck with your search for truth!
R
References :
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4666292/They-Say-Youre-CrazyPaula-J-Caplan-Ph-D-
http://www.amazon.com/They-Say-Youre-Crazy-Psychiatrists/dp/0201488329
http://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Psychiatry-Electroshock-Biochemical-Theories/dp/0312113668/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232769954&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Depressant-Fact-Book-Doctor-Prozac/dp/073820451X/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_c